Mark Cunnigham answered our questions on New York’s no wave and his band of that times, Mars, before his appearance in Istanbul as Convolution with Silvia Mestres.
Interview by Ekin Sanaç
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Do you relate “no wave” to punk and new wave, and believe that it emerged from the power of what it was opposing and resisting?
New wave yes, punk no. except for the Ramones. We were a New York movement, and definitely came out of previous NY movements, from the Factory – Velvets scene to the early 70s new wave, Television, early Talking Heads, Patti Smith…there was a sense of transgression in all of that and we took it further. The ramones were the first and only true ny punk band, and they came before the brits. Mars was already playing in clubs when brit punk became popular, and we didn’t like it at all, musically speaking.
Do you personally like or despise the name “no wave”? Do you think it sums up what was going on at the time?
It’s as good a name as any, although it leads to the idea that we were negative, which I don’t believe. But we were saying no to the typical idea and attitude of rock.
Why was being in New York in that certain period of time crucial in terms of the artistic trade? How did the city, Manhattan, the possible gentrification of the neighborhood and your lifestyles affect the growth of the musical and artistic movement labelled as “no wave”? Can you please tell us a bit about the life in New York city back then?
Lower Manhattan was a dangerous place when I moved there after finishing school back in 74. We lived in the east village, which was not at all gentrified yet. It was necessary to cultivate a defiant attitude in order to survive, and that definitely fed into the art scene. But also important was that it was a cheap city, very easy to rent a place and survive on part time jobs and gigs. That encouraged a whole generation of artists to move there from around the US. Most of the new and no wavers were from places like Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Milwaukee, etc. I was one of the few from the Metropolitan area of NY.
Mars is known and referred to as the first band to emerge “no wave”… Considering that the movement ceased away anyway, almost the moment it was labeled with the name “no wave”, were you aware back in the time when you started Mars that you were starting some kind of a “movement”?
Not at first, cause we felt more like we were continuing a NY tradition, we started out practicing on velvets songs. But later it certainly did feel like a movement, partly because we all were connected, using the same rehearsal spaces, hanging out in the same clubs. Sharing partners. And at that time I’d say we felt like we were the trailblazers, the most experimental, which definitely influenced the others to take more risks.
Being someone who experienced New York in the certain period, has “no wave” been something that started and died in that certain period of time and in the certain place for you? Or do you think it somehow kept growing with more recent bands who are influenced by the bands and call themselves “no wave” around the world?
It was clear that the next generation, like Swans and Sonic Youth, were influenced in the same way we had been, in a natural way, thru the NY tradition. It’s difficult for me to judge the more recent stuff, as they may or may not be trying too hard to imitate a style, and no wave was not about style, it was much more about method and attitude.
No wave is known to be one of the few movements (maybe the most) that is genderly integrated. Men and women are equally involved and it does this, not with an obvious statement, but rather naturally. What do you relate this to? What do you think about the world not being able to get over this gender discrimination in music in general?
The whole macho rock pose was one of the things that we hated the most. Maybe cause we came more out of the art scene than the music scene, and in the 70s NY art scene women counted, there was a definite sense of equality that had evolved there probably more than anywhere else. It was natural for us, when we formed the bands and in our relations, but lamentably this didn’t last, not even in the art scene. Incredibly sad and ridiculous. In rock it’s simply pathetic.
It’s possible to say that what the bands who were labeled as no wave had in common was the originality of music both in terms of how it was made and how the end results sounded. And this came out from the shared nihilistic approach and the resistance to what came before. Do you think it is still possible today to create music which is “that” original, to have the same impact? Or do you think nothing from now on can sound that divergent, yet they can be interesting and fresh which is ok?
Very good question, but difficult to answer. I’d like to think it’s still possible, but certainly more difficult, as there’s this feeling that all has been done and heard before, so the only possibility is to recycle. I’ve been fighting this my whole career. Your point about sounding fresh is important, because we were recycling as well, just without any commercial considerations (at least for some of the bands) and this is very important. As soon as you start thinking about what people expect of you, you might as well give up.
Do you think there is still as much room for resistancy in music, where so many things are interwined together and much more available both in terms of the methods of making it and the sounds?
Absolutely, but it takes a lot of fucking energy.
Why did you call it an end for Mars at the time?
There was a feeling that we had gone as far as we could in terms of deconstruction, and that there was something very final about our last period. There were extra musical reasons, but I think if we had agreed on a way to continue, we would have.
According to the press, the reason you re-released the Mars recordings in 2003 was the dissatisfaction with Jim Thirlwell’s previous take on the album. How was the remastering/renewing process of the recordings released by G3G/ Spookysound?
Jim’s work was limited by the fact we could only do vinyl transcription, and the technology at that time didn’t allow to equal the original sound, so Jim added effects to make up for it, which at the time seemed like a good idea, but later I couldn’t live with it. Luckily we were able to recuperate the masters, and the Complete Mars Studio sessions is with the original sound, in fact even better.
When did you move to Spain? Was it a musical decision to do so?
More personal, but the music scene in Barcelona was very good for me at the time. And it has been a fantastic place to work and live.
What are your favorite/influential music from Turkey?
I love the traditional music, as well as all the modern music which uses and transforms it, like all the Doublemoon stuff. I’m very interested in knowing more. Silvia and I came to Istanbul for the first time last December and we were very inspired by what we found. This is why we came back to play. Hopefully it’s just the beginning.
What kind of equipment do you use to process your trumpet?
A delay modeler and a Kaoss multi effects pad, both of which are looping devices as well.
What projects are you on currently?
Convolution, with my partner, Silvia Mestres, which started at the turn of the millennium, as well as a more recent project, Bèstia Ferida, with two Catalan musicians, which has a more hard free jazz sound. Perhaps it’s the closest project I’ve had to the sound of Mars.
This is the original English version of the interview published in Bant’s New York themed September-October issue.
